Interview with a student from Afghanistan
Friday 2023/01/13, 4 pm
Interviewer Ida Hellkvist Karlsson and Ella Eklund
Trento, Italy
What was your occupation/activity before you moved from Afghanistan?
I was working on a project financed by the World Bank. Our directorate Public Private Partnership (PPP) was operating under the Ministry of Finance. As we were working on really important projects on the national level the cabinet decided to move our directorate to the Administrative Office of the President. I was a senior project analysis and evaluation specialist. So I was evaluating and analysing the project before giving the green signal, whether they were suitable to invest in the project or not. Later on, the world bank give me the responsibility of gender specialist as well, where I had to consider various gender issues whether in the proposal of the project or during the implementation of the project as well as working in favour of the female staff of our directorate. This would make it easy for females to communicate their problems and ask for what they needed without hesitation, in the meantime, we were giving awareness training.
Did you go to school in Afghanistan?
Unfortunately one of my dreams since childhood was to study in my homeland, but I never could fulfill this dream. I did Afghan schools in Pakistan. As we immigrated to Pakistan during the war, our schools also immigrated. So like this, I studied school with the Afghanistan system.
So then you don’t have any educational experience from Afghanistan?
No not really, when I finished school we moved back to Afghanistan in 2005, and I wanted to do my university in Afghanistan since Kabul University is a beautiful university. I was hearing all these positive things like studying in your language with your people is something else than studying in another place. Of course, it’s a beautiful experience but it’s different. I tried to do my university at Kabul University but since that year there were so many people, so many students enrolled, that they didn’t have a place to enroll everyone so then I had to move back to Pakistan to do my university.
When did you leave Afghanistan, the more recent time?
Recently, we moved from Afghanistan on the 21st of august (2021), it was after the Taliban took over.
Did you come here to Trento at that time?
No, we were helped by the Italian military to come out of Afghanistan, but we were taken to Rome first, and then we were in Rome airport for some days, after that, we were moved to a camp in Rome and we stayed there for six days. Then we were moved to Napoli, for quarantine, and we stayed there for thirteen days. During this period I always tried to come here to Trento and thanks to the help of friends around and the humanitarian corridors they made it possible for me to come to Trento.
Okay, so once you were here in Trento, did you apply for the University, or how did you start your educational journey in Trento?
When I arrived here I came to know about the Futura project, which is a scholarship for asylum seekers, so I applied for that and I was lucky. I succeeded and I was selected. This is the foundation year for us now, and our courses will start next year.
Do you think that there are any challenges and opportunities about being a student here in Trento?
Challenges in my case are for example this Futura project for asylum seekers, one of the main challenges is that for people like me who are with the family, it’s a little bit difficult because as Futura is providing a shared room, a single place for you in a hostel, like I can’t move there. At the same time, the project that is supporting us, they are not really in favour of doing studies as they ask for various appointments and courses to follow and if you are a student you can’t concentrate at two places at the same time. So there is a little bit of a clash of this. I see no other challenges in studying at the university of Trento. As for the opportunities, I think it is one of the best universities that have great opportunities in different ways, they have different activities, and different programs that can easily involve you and you can keep your social life as well as your studies. So I think it’s a good university to study at and I will always recommend it.
As a woman, have you received any support from your family, relatives, or friends for studying?
My father didn’t study, but he really was in favour of it and he was always struggling to help everyone who wanted to study. Up to the point that when he was in the village, there used to be a school very far from us, it was difficult for the students, for the male students, to comeback home and then go to school. So to make it easy for them he built a place by himself near the school where he was washing the clothes of these students, he was preparing food for them to make it easy for them so that they don’t get an excuse to leave their studies. And the same was in his daughter’s cases, he always said that “my daughters, my children shall study, whatever, wherever I will find opportunity for them to study and to go ahead with their studies”. So I always had support from my family. I came to Trento in 2007, I did my bachelors here, and I was living here alone by myself, being an Afghan girl, I was single, and I was young. When I arrived here, my relatives would see this as taboo. Education for females is taboo for them, and then let’s not talk about sending a girl alone by herself to a different society, to a different culture, to a different place far from everyone. But my family supported me in this, and they said that “it’s your future, it’s your life, and it doesn’t depend on them”. I did my bachelors here, I studied here, and I worked here, even though we were criticized. My brothers were criticized, and my family was criticized by our relatives. Like we were very highlighted in society among the families that were really in favour of all these things. But that didn’t stop us. We as a family have everyone who has done at least master in the family, so it’s a pleasure and satisfaction for us that we were able to achieve this.
Is that why you wanted to go to Trento recently time? Because you have studied here before?
Yes. I was aware, I had friends, and I had professors that I was regularly in contact with, so that was also something that attracted me back to Trento.
Now girls and women are refused to go to university and school in Afghanistan. How do you think that this will affect the society in Afghanistan in the longer term?
Society is composed of males and females. And both of them should work in a balanced way together to develop the society, to develop the country. Like there’s a saying that says “if you educate a single girl, it means that you educate ten persons at the same time”. Because she is a mother, a sister, being a daughter, she can educate ten other people by herself. That’s true, I believe so much in this saying. And that’s true and I think a society where the male and female are working together is much better and more developed than a society unfortunately like ours. So I think until the girls don’t have their freedom, they are not educated, I think Afghanistan is never going to get out of the trouble it’s having now. And it’s never going to come in a balance like the rest of the world and this is very unfortunate but it’s true. I believein this and I think everyone should work together to develop a society.
Do you think that men and women have different views on this? Or do you think that women think one thing and men think something else? In Afghanistan.
You might know that the majority of Afghanistan is rural areas that are not educated, neither men nor female. So it’s very easy for them to be brainwashed by anyone, in the way they want them to act. So talking about the views and rights, I think overall women and men have the same rights, they have the same view, those who are aware of course, I’m not talking about the people who are not aware, who don’t know anything about what’s going on in the rest of the world, but those who are aware I think there is no difference aspect of the way they’re thinking or considering this problem or this opportunity.
And about the school system in particular, do you think that women and men think differently about that?
No, I do not think so.
Are these things that are happening in Afghanistan, is this something that people are talking about if you know, or is it silent?
As for the last years, people were awakened, and they came to know a little bit about their rights. They are aware now of what’s good for them and what’s not good for them. Even though there are some other major and really serious problems like poverty, it’s affecting people and there are people who were working in higher positions before who were earning good but now they have nothing to eat. Security, like everyone, is escaping to save their lives, including me, I escaped saving my life, to save the life of my children. One of the other major issues that are discussed in Afghanistan nowadays is education. Because people know now that it’s very important to be educated to live your life, to have your rights, to have something. So yeah it’s a main topic that is being discussed.
Are you in contact with people that are in Afghanistan now or Afghani students that are here in Trento?
Yeah, I have contact with the people in Afghanistan because as for my family, my family is in Afghanistan. There are students from universities, from schools, which are suffering from the situation. And also yes I’m in touch with the Afghan students here in Trento, we are in a few but yes. Even though some of them I didn’t meet in person but we get introduced through Whatsapp.
Are you worried about the family you have in Afghanistan now, with everything that has happened?
Well, I’m worried, of course. Even if it was not my family, I would be worried about my conationals. Because you live a certain life, you have a lot of ideas of your future like your dreams, and you’re expecting something very different, and suddenly everything changes and everything looks so bad and depressing. Yeah, I think it would be normal for anyone to get worried in this situation, for your known persons and unknown.
About the future, do you have any educational plans for the future here or someplace else? Do you have any fear or expectation in general?
Well, I have always wanted to do my master’s, and now that I have the opportunity I would like to achieve this goal. And I believe that as much as one can learn, as the person grows virtually. Apart from that, I wanted to do Ph.D., but with the children, I think it’s tough. Or I might do it when they would grow up, otherwise, I would like to do some specific courses, some specific diplomas and certifications on some very specific arguments that are up my interest and that I think is important for my future.
Can you see yourself now going back to Afghanistan in the future or do you want to stay in Trento or maybe somewhere else?
We Afghans, are very proud of ourselves being Afghans. But honestly speaking, what happened recently, what I have seen, what I’m seeing, I’m hearing, I have no plan to go back. Because before when I came for my bachelor’s when I finished my bachelor’s, I had a good job, and I was independent. I had everything a person wanted to have. But I was so excited to go back, that I didn’t consider anything here. I took the first plane I could take and went back. Because I was hopeful for the future, and I had my dreams. But after that, we were like, everything was moving positively. There were constructions, we were able to do dialogues with our neighbouring countries, to compete with our neighbouring countries, we were able to do something and to tell people. We had our flag, we had an anthem, and we had a president. But now I’m hopeless. Even though it’s not something good to be, what happened hurt me so much that I have no hope now.
We have asked all of our questions now, is there something you would like to say or add to what you have said already, or if you think we have missed anything? Is something important for you?
Honestly, there are always these negative topics, and negative arguments, so I don’t know if it would be of help to add or not. But recently the Taliban are really… showing their real face. In the beginning, they were trying to be nice, they wanted to get accepted by the world. And they were saying like “no we are not doing this or that” but now they are slowly, gradually, taking off the face they were showing. They banned the girls from school, they banned the universities, they banned the females from going to the offices and the NGOs. And now they are working on a new law about females going to work in governmental offices, and they said that only those females can come and workers who are working in the lowest position. We had grades of the first position, second, and third. The first was the highest position etc. They said that they can work on the sixth and fifth positions which are the cleaners. But the ones who were working on the second or the first positions are not normal, illegible to come and work, or they should introduce someone from their family, a male (to take the position) or they are going to hire someone themselves. So, they are so ignorant, sorry for the words I’m using, but a minister from the cabinet is saying that “we don’t need engineers, we don’t need pilots, we don’t need doctors. It’s not something important, it’s not something that in our religion that we should consider”. Then the second day they say that “we are lacking engineers and we should ask our neighbouring countries to send some of theirs to us so they can work for us”. So here everything is politics, it’s made to destroy the advance from the root. It’s one of the fears that almost every Afghan have now is that we are losing our identity, because people move to different countries, to different places, and they are adopting those cultures, those languages. It’s something good, it’s something positive. I’m not saying that it’s not good, but like we are losing our own identity. For example tomorrow my son will grow, he was less than a year when we arrived, he will grow and he will of course not be able to talk my language as fluently as he will be able to talk English or Italian. So it’s kind off like we are losing ourselves and it’s horrible. Like you see you’re losing everything and you can’t do anything about it.